Meridian Flip Fail

Alrighty, so I went to the Gemini-2 Group, and Tom told me about the GOTO Limit possibly being my issue. The problem is, My limits are 92 and 95 respectively with a western go to limit of 2.5… This means the object has to be within 2.5 degrees of the meridian in order to command a flip. I’m still trying to figure out what I need to set it to in order to cause the flip.

Chris

You probably need to set your “Degrees Past Meridian to Flip” to be 0 and with such a narrow window you also will want to use the “Wait for meridian” option so that SGP won’t start another frame if it detects that the meridian flip would happen within the next frame.

http://www.mainsequencesoftware.com/Content/SGPHelp/TelescopesMounts.html#MeridianFlipOptions

Or if you’re feeling adventurous you could set the “Degrees Past Meridian to Flip” to be a -2 and not use the “Wait for Meridian” option. However depending on the length of your frame this could cause a flip to fail. The most conservative option is to use the wait option.

Thanks,
Jared

Some controllers have the availability to park the mount for you prior to closing the roof. Generally your mount requires a hardware park switch of some sort though. If you’re technologically savvy enough you could create an interface box that is connected to the relay switch on your weather station. Then when the weather station says it’s unsafe this box could send the park command to the Gemini.

Will we have weather station support? Yes.
When will we have it? Likely in 2.4
So like can I have a date? Unfortunately not at this time

When we were discussing previously we never put a timeline around it. We still need to figure out the best implementation for it. That could be using the ASCOM Safety Device. But now there’s the switch protocol and we’re not sure if that will get picked up for something similar to this as well.

Thanks,
Jared

We implemented the SafetyMonitor in ASCOM because we could never get any agreement over a weather interface. “Is it Safe?” seemed to be the only question that we could get agreement on.

My feeling is that the switch interface would be used in a safety controller - maybe written by someone else - and it decodes the switches or other devices and provides the safe/unsafe information that you need.

Maybe two safes - safe to open the observatory and safe to operate.

I’m the same as Andy here. My meridian flips always work and on time. Guide star re-acquired and sequence continues after a center here. I use a Losmandy with Gemini 1v4 and v18 of the Losmandy driver. Due to my equipment arrangement I flip at -2 setting ie 8 minutes before the meridian cross and it always works.

I managed to get the park to work (found some configuration in the Gemini telescope program, not the ASCOM setup for the mount),but Im’ still having problems with the meridian flips.

Last night I had my Gemini I level 4 ver 1.05 mount set to rather tight limits of 92 and 95 degrees and the GOTO default of 2.5 degrees. I am using the ASCOM driver 1.0.18.0.
SGPro was configure to mount flip at 0 degrees past the meridian and wait for Meridian.

The countdown dialog came up before the flip and when it was time to flip, I got the following ASCOM Exception: “SystemArgumentsException: Wrong number of Arguments or invalid”.

I went outside and did a manual flip with the controller and it was successful, so my limits we fine.

So is there a problem with my ASCOM drive/mount setup? Nothing seems to work.

Thanks,
Frank Z…

Can you post you sgp log?

Thanks,

Jared Wellman
Co-Owner and Developer
Main Sequence Software
www.mainsequencesoftware.com

Jared,

Here is the part of the log file around the flip time.

[4/9/2014 3:51:35 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Meridian Flip needed, Hour Angle >= Degrees Past To Flip: -0.00416666666666288 >= 0
[4/9/2014 3:51:35 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Running blocking meridian flip…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Starting Meridian Flip Procedure
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Calling SGM_TELESCOPE_SOLVE
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian flip:  Waiting for scope solve to complete…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] SGM_TELESCOPE_SOLVE message received…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Telescope solve with plate solver Pinpoint…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate solving scope frame…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Created full file name: C:\Users\Fix\AppData\Local\SequenceGenerator\Temp\plate_solve_image.fit
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] SGM_CAMERA_PLATE_SOLVER_CAPTURE message received…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] Collecting FITs headers for plate solve frame…
[4/9/2014 3:51:36 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] Collecting FITs headers for plate solve frame…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] Created full file name: C:\Users\Fix\AppData\Local\SequenceGenerator\Temp\plate_solve_image.fit
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Resuming auto guiding (settling)…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] PHDA resuming…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] PHDA: Sent command (PHD_GETSTATUS)…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] PHDA: Received (3)…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] PHDA pause state is same as request, returning…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] =========== Save file took 374 ms
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Camera Thread] SGM_CAMERA_PLATE_SOLVER_CAPTURE complete…
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate Solve Hint RA: 9.93027777777778
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate Solve Hint DEC: 69.6863888888889
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate Solve Hint Scale: 1.32524240595022
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate Solve Hint Angle: 184.988540820492
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate Solve Search: Use up to magnitude 20 stars
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate solve binning: 4x4
[4/9/2014 3:51:47 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate solve exp len: 10
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate solving scope frame failed!  Invoking blind solver…
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET convertedAstrometry.fits path: C:\Users\Fix\AppData\Local\SequenceGenerator\Temp\convertedAstometry.fits
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET - Saving file
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET using endpoint: Astrometry.net
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET - Calling Async Solve
[4/9/2014 3:51:48 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Astrometry.NET uploading file: C:\Users\Fix\AppData\Local\SequenceGenerator\Temp\convertedAstometry.fits
[4/9/2014 3:52:02 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Caught exception while Checking Astrometry.NET solve - CheckSubmission: Error converting value {null} to type ‘System.Int32’. Path ‘jobs[0]’, line 1, position 90.
[4/9/2014 3:52:03 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Astrometry.NET - Upload complete
[4/9/2014 3:52:03 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Astrometry.NET - Waiting for solve to complete
[4/9/2014 3:52:08 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Astrometry.NET - Job successfully solved
[4/9/2014 3:52:08 AM] [DEBUG] [Unknown] Astrometry.NET solve done in 10 seconds.
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET - Solve Completed
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Astrometry.NET - Solve Successful
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Plate solving scope frame successful, scope is synced, writing FITs header info…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Telescope: Syncing to RA: 9.9322564571197 Dec: 69.6648799020205
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Attempting to write fits header info for
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Scope solve complete…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] SGM_TELESCOPE_SOLVE message complete…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian flip:  Scope solve complete…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Solve and Sync was Successful
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Stopping the Auto Guider
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] PHD Advanced: Stop
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] PHDA: Sent command (PHD_STOP)…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] PHDA: Received (0)…
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Sending Telescope command to execute meridian flip
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] ASCOM Telescope: Pier side is West
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] ASCOM Telescope: attempting pier flip using sideOfPier
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Setting Pier East
[4/9/2014 3:52:09 AM] [DEBUG] [Telescope Thread] Pier Flip failed when using side of pier: System.ArgumentException: Wrong number of arguments or invalid property assignment
[4/9/2014 3:52:22 AM] [DEBUG] [Main Thread] PopulateDataModel:  Transferring view to the data model…
[4/9/2014 3:52:22 AM] [DEBUG] [MF Update Thread] Performing serialize…
[4/9/2014 3:52:40 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Telescope command to meridian flip has completed
[4/9/2014 3:52:40 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Telescope failed to perform meridian flip
[4/9/2014 3:52:49 AM] [DEBUG] [Pier Flip Thread] Meridian Flip: Procedure complete
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Blocking Pier Flip: Failed to meridian flip, aborting sequence (False)
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] ASCOM Camera: Attempting to abort exposure…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] ASCOM Camera: Exposure aborted…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Run event requested sequence abort…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Resuming auto guiding (settling)…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] PHDA resuming…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] PHDA: Sent command (PHD_GETSTATUS)…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] PHDA: Received (0)…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] PHDA pause state is same as request, returning…
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Checking RunEndOfSequenceEquipmentOptions, force = False
[4/9/2014 3:52:52 AM] [DEBUG] [Sequence Thread] Sequence was aborted, skipping end of sequence options…

Frank Z…

Frank,
Was your profile or sequence created with an older version of SGP by chance?

If you manually run a meridian flip from inside of SGP does it duplicate the issue?

Thanks,
Jared

Chris,

The solution to that question is really to look at what CCDAP and CCDCC do.  They both provide you with sufficient control of your weather station data and provide you with the safe use of your observatory.  

I wish I was a programmer, but I’m not. Everyone with an observatory just says to use CCDAP/CCDCC/ACP.

Agould,

While I have a Gemini-2, I don't have a G11.  My Mi-250 has much stricter tolerances for its limits.  I know, I should buy a new mount to go with the observatory control hardware that I apparently need as well.

Chris

2.4 will have some fairly basic weather station support. Essentially it will implement the “Is Safe To Open” option using the ASCOM Safety Monitor.

If the safety monitor reports “Unsafe” it will run your end of sequence options. It will do this whether a sequence is running or not. It will not attempt to restart the sequence when it is safe. It’s a one shot kind of thing at the moment.

We hope to release an initial beta next week.

Thanks,
Jared

That’ll give me exactly what I need. I’d much rather lose a night than a mount or camera.

Thanks for that implementation. It means the world!

Frank, his put on recreating your sequence is a good one. It always bites me.

Chris

Jared,

Sorry for the delay…just back from a short business trip.

I keep my SGPro current, and this equipment profile is about 1 month or so old, However I don’t recall if I created it from scratch or took a saved one and modified it and saved it as a new profile. I could create one from scratch and reinstall the latest Gemini drivers and see if it works under those condition, but the weekend weather is not promising. The sequence was created using the create new sequence from profile and is about two weeks old. If it is due to using an old profile, does that mean Ihave to recreate all my profiles again?

I usually run my scope through the generic hub so I have a few things connected to it. However, I did a straight solo connection with the Gemini driver and had the same flip problems.

I get the ASCOM error if I try a manual flip or an auto flip and have had it for a while. I logged the error message in my notebook from a few months ago and have tried to schedule my imaging to avoid flips or just do one with the mount hand control at the right time.

Frank Z…

Jared,

I found out from Tom that this might be a common error with G2s they’ve been working on forever. Apparently the G2 will only flip when you command a slew and it’s within the range. Is it possible to have an option to do a slew versus using the SetSideOfPier option? Apparently commanding a slew works just fine…

Chris

I usually run my scope through the generic hub so I have a few things connected to it. However, I did a straight solo connection with the Gemini driver and had the same flip problems.

Frank,
There’s no reason to do this. Most modern drivers will create their own virtual hub. So just connect everything directly to the Gemini ASCOM driver.

Commanding a slew definitely does not work on my G1 when I’m past the meridian. If it can access it there from that position it will just slew there rather than flipping.

The right fix is to address the issue where it lies. It sounds like Tom and crew are currently working towards that.

Also lets try and avoid cross posting here. It just confuses folks reading the threads.

Thanks,
Jared

Jared,

Apparently they’re not. The email Tom sent me was in reference to ACP. Apparently he’d been trying to do a software fix for it for years with little to show for it. You’re right, you’d hope that using SetSideOfPier would do exactly that… but apparently it doesn’t and Rene hasn’t got around to working out the difference between what ASCOM is asking and what the mount is doing.

Chris

Well, if they can’t get it working then they should set the “CanSetSideOfPier” option to false, in which case SGP will command a slew. But SideOfPier is the preferred method as it allows flipping prior to the meridian. So if the driver says it’s implemented we take their word for it and use that. We can’t be expected to know if the driver is broken though.

If the ASCOM driver is broken it should be addressed, or the functionality should be removed. This must be strictly a G2 thing as meridian flips are pretty rock solid with my G1. However I have to use 1.0.18.0 as the later builds actually do break meridian flip functionality as it will report the incorrect side of pier :-/

Thanks,
Jared

Yea, I’ll forward you the email Tom sent me. I think I got it right… he didn’t seem to want to rock the boat on it. But, like you said, I would like to see it fixed! :smile:

Yes, he is aware of the issue. He was going to supply a new driver to test
but I haven’t seen anything yet.

Thanks,

Jared Wellman
Co-Owner and Developer
Main Sequence Software
www.mainsequencesoftware.com