Problems using pier flip option of SGP with 10Micron Mount

Sequence Generator
21

Hi Ken,

Equipment can go till about 7 below meridian.
But in one of the ealier posts, we learned that the mount will only pier flip prior to meridian. That seems unlogical, but it seems to be a true statement. That is why we use -5min.
Tonight the pier flip did work again. We are not sure why. Possibly because we declined in the SGP settings an external control. Or because we terminated the link to the planetarium program. We will try again to be sure it doesn’t again work just once. We could not really good read gunnys screenshots as the resolution was low.
Best regards,
Anna

22

I tried yesterday to post the screen shots, but they did not go thru. Here’s another try. Also, you do not want to have external control enabled in SGP from what I’ve seen. That is designed for ipads, ect and it did screw up my results when I had it checked.

23

Well, I see the image resolution is poor, but you should get the idea. If someone has a better way to improve the resolution, let me know. These sized images have always worked well on other forums.

LST is NOT something that you have to wait until midnight for. It was the time that locked on my hc when pier flip did not work. This was due to a problem with the firmware.

Daytime testing for the pier flip can be done. Just make sure you turn off focusing, plate solving, auto center, ect. I’ll try to find a link to the daytime testing procedure and place it on this forum.

You’ll have to take several images b4 the meridian flip with the camera shutter closed and I would recommend using the Ha filter and cover the scope aperture to prevent sun damage. I used 4- 10 min. exposures b4 the flip and observed the lst on the hc. Hc should show the lst and SGP should show a count down to the pier flip. If it shows time to meridian flip only, you’ve got a problem. When this happened to me you could clearly see that the lst had locked and the flip did not occurred.

The -5 min setting to meridian flip was recommended to me by a fellow on the 10 u forum and CN. I’ve seen times set from -5 to -15 minutes. I have no idea why this works, but obviously it does.

Caveat!!.. This is what has worked for my equipment. Use at your own peril, and read the manuals before you attempt this and understand the procedures. This is not the time to take short cuts ( I learned the hard way ). Until you’re comfortable with this procedure I would recommend being by the “Kill Switch.”

24

Hi Gunny and all,

Thank you so much for your help.

I think we know now what went wrong. Somehow, the ascom driver switched by itselfe from Pers driver to the 10Micron Mount driver. Doing so, the -5min were automatically changed to 0 and pier flip did not work.
We deinstalled the 10Micron mount driver and tonight pier flip did work. We are very happy!
unfortunately, the plate solver moved the object to the wrong position. We did try that as a dry run (as we always do) and it worker about 3 times in a row very well. But, as usual, not at the real test. At the moment, we are unsure why that did not work after the Flip.
Maybe someone has that problem too? (We use astronomy.net local server)

Best regards,
Anna

25

No this information is not ok.
the mount can flip prior or after meridian, but you have to set correctly your guide/slew limit.
About drivers confusion and so on, :slight_smile:you have to take care in sgp what is set in youir profile/configuration.
it sounds like your defaukt setup in sgp is not ok (bad drviers and maybe bad meridian flip settings)
you should check this.

26

My understanding from postings on the 10 Micron forum that 10 Micron mounts can only auto-meridian flip when instructed by software prior to the meridian. The only way to handle this in SGP is to set a flip as a minus number and to wait for meridian. This setting works and is only a minor inconvenience in terms of lost potential subs.

Whether this is the ‘ideal’ functionality for its driver and firmware I am not sure.

27

I will look at my sgp configuration as well as my mount configuration
and tells you.
unfortunatly, not near my astrogear at this moments.
Francois

28

A massive thank you to all who have contributed to and solved this frustrating subject. Last night i changed my settings to those detailed below, and using 15 minute subs the mount flipped and re-acquired my target perfectly; i didn’t use auto-centre.

10M handset -

use Per’s ASCOM driver

use firmware 2.14.4, this is currently beta but i haven’t had any problems using it

Set Flip Slew Tolerance to 3

Flip Slew Guidance to 5

Enable LST on handset display (need to hit button 3 to enable); I don’t know if this is significant but since this all worked i have no desire to change anything :wink:

SGP settings -

tick “wait until Meridian”

set Auto Meridian Flip to -5 minutes

untick “external control enabled”

29

Photo shoot is now complete and I can get back to this problem. I received this response from 10u via their forum. My guess is that they are trying to narrow down where the problem is coming from with the new firmware update and new mount log:

Dear all,

the new firmware version 2.14.8 beta, used with the new mount logger version 2.7, logs additional information that will be useful to diagnose (and hopefully solve) the issue with the “Lock clutches” message (in conjunction with SGP or not).

You can download the firmware here, and the new mount logger here.

[EDIT]
Just some notes: Use BOTH the new firmware (2.14.8 beta) and the new mount logger (2.7), otherwise not all information will be logged. If you can, please note the time when you see the message, so we can cross check with the log. Also, if you have other software running, try to keep only the software which is required to trigger the issue (so: if the “Lock clutches” message appears with no software running apart from the mount logger, please try to log it in that condition. If SGP is required for making the message appear, keep only SGP connected to the mount, and so on. Additional logs taken with SGP or whatever other software is running are welcome).

Thanks to everybody for the patience!
Filippo Riccio

sviluppatore software 10micron

10micron software developer

In the meanwhile, I have tried updating the UTC file and am using a new timing scheme, ie. I have turned off the Per Frejvall time sync option in his driver and now only use the 10u clock sync program. The first step is to sync the pc clock with an NTP server, then connect the mount and 10u clock sync program. Once the 10u clock sync program shows both clocks in sync, I then disconnect the NTP server so that only the 10u program is running. Hopefully, this will solve the problem as I have only used it successfully last night. If subsequent imaging sessions show that this is not the solution, I will upload the new firmware and log.

I’ve been contacted on this issue, so I thought it would be wise to let interested parties know the latest…Gunny

30

I’ve updated to the new firmware and mount logger for the 10u. Friday night resulted in mixed results and I have submitted the logs to 10u:

Hello Ivan/Filippo,

I got a break in the weather last night, so I’ve included logs from the mount, Per’s log, and sgp log. I noticed the following last night:

1.) about 1926 hrs, meridian flip occurred with the lock clutches message, this remained briefly 15-30 sec, then operations continued. When it did stop tracking, the plate solve after the flip was off by a lot. It took 5-7 auto plate solve attempts to center the object. The rest of the imaging for that object then continued successfully.

2.) After the meridian flip occurred, I wanted to go to another object. I aborted the sequence and did a manual slew to the new dso. This resulted in the same warning message, but this time, the tracking stayed locked and I had to manually park the scope and restart operations. Time was about 1945hrs when this occurred.

3.) The new dso (#2 above) was scheduled for a meridian flip at 2058hrs. This flip was successful, with NO lock clutches warning.

4.) I switched cameras and scopes and then went to M31. Meridian flip occurred about 2317 with the lock clutches message and same events as noted in point #1 above. Meridian flip did eventually occur and imaging went smoothly.

5.) I then attempted to manually slew to IC 2118, after aborting operations on M31. Unlike the series of events in point #2, this manual slew resulted in NO problems. 2333Hrs.

6.) Merdian flip occurred about 0300hrs, but I had gone to bed, it did appear to be successful. Not sure if the lock clutches message appeared at this time.

That’s the latest for now…Gunny

31

I have received a reply from 10 Micron on this issue and hopefully all will be well:

Thank you for all the logs and the report.

I found and corrected a related bug in firmware revision 2.14.9, which is available now for beta testing.
If you try it, please let me know.

Best regards
Filippo Riccio

sviluppatore software 10micron…

We have been working on this issue for awhile now, and it seems pretty unique to my situation. I want to emphasize that with respect to the mount and SGP all features of this set up work perfectly, except for the meridian flip and it appears that there is a bug that 10 Micron has found. I will report on how the new firmware works when weather clears.

I am very impressed with the level of service at 10 Micron in Italy. Some, here in the States, could learn from their example…Gunny

32

After a couple of weeks of testing, it does appear that the firmware update from 10 Micron has solved the lock clutches problem. My thanks to all who contributed to helping. A big thanks to you Barry for all the logs that helped 10U find the bug in the firmware.

33

I’m pleased to read that your issues seem to have resolved themselves Gunny; glad I could help.

I’ve had no issues with 2.14.10 and SGP 2.5.2.6.

Clear skies!