Hi guys - I had tested SGP - got frustrated and went back to APT. Things were still slow so I upgraded my old win7 laptop to win10 (new laptop) with i5 and 3.0 USB ports. I installed SGP on it to give it another go and configured… most everything all at once. Initial tests have been GREAT. Not sure why it’s so different from previous configuration? But it’s working well.
I was about to buy it, but I’m still scratching my head why I don’t see my OSC camera displaying in color? APT and sharpcap allow me to shoot in RGB24 and view color images instantly? am I missing a option in SGP?
I go out to camera settings and the same RGB24 option isn’t there like it is in other software?
Other wise I’m having amazing success with it so far. (not done sequences) doing tests in daylight… but finally got “take one” to work and plate solve and weather, seems to be coming together.
We do not Debayer in SGP. So your image will look like it has a “screendoor” effect. However the data that is saved does have color. You just need to debayer the images prior to stacking them.
That’s a bummer. I often want to shoot one shot.
What do you recommend to debayer Is there a free one? I have a .fit loader, but that doesn’t bring back color.
What are my options for post process… so DSS debayer?
Also another issue. When I give a profile name or equipment setup and save with a name. When I go back in, no profile or equipment is selected?
I have to keep clicking the name I saved it as to mod it. Why is that?
Oh one more thing. Where is the option to flip/rotate the image? I’d like to flip upright to match sky and planetarium program. Most programs have a box to check to flip horz… and or flip vert?
Just to be clear you would almost certainly have to Debayer no matter what application you’re using. They’re only DISPLAYING the image debayered. The FIT data is likely very similar and also a 16BPP grayscale, just like every other FIT image.
I’d recommend PIxInsignt, but it is not free. I believe DSS does debayer. It’s been many years since I’ve used that but I’m almost positivei it has that option.
You need to set it as “Default Profile” there is an option in the Profile Manager to set a specific profile as default. [quote=“Ron_Kramer, post:5, topic:5496, full:true”]
Oh one more thing. Where is the option to flip/rotate the image? I’d like to flip upright to match sky and planetarium program. Most programs have a box to check to flip horz… and or flip vert?
[/quote]
Rotate options are on the top of the image preview:
Thanks - I did find the rotate before you replied. thanks
DEFAULT (I have done) doesn’t work. If I click OK and come back at say user profile manager - no profile is selected.
I even tried naming as “rons default” or “default”. clicking default doesn’t bring it to the top next time I click on user profile?
Maybe its me? I click TOOLS equipment manager - fill it all out save “AS DEFAULT” as say “basic setup”.
I click ok. I do what ever and next time I click TOOLS equipment manager (its no longer selected) it’s blank and my default one is below in the list.
Same for TOOLS - user profile…
It won’t necessarily be selected in the Equipment Manager as the default. But whenever you open up SGP or you go to File>>New Sequence it will automatically create a new sequence using your default profile.
It will be denoted as default whenever you select it, but it won’t necessarily be the profile and automatically selected when you open the profile manager.
ok thanks. One last thing for now. How important is it to shut down and disconnect devices? Can’t I just close the programs?
It’s a pain to find each thing to shut down. I have a hard time shutting down EQMOD too - Can I damage anything?
So I did some tests - Using team viewer I ran the scope setup out in the garage from my warm indoor computer.
I shot this down the driveway. This was debayed in Pixinsight, then SPLIT back into each color channel (b/w of each RGB)
I then loaded them into photoshop and combine them.
They look the same as they did when I debayered them in pixinsight? It might look ok, to you - except it’s not fall here.
ALL THE GRASS AND LEAVES AND FOLIAGE ARE VERY GREEN in real life.
I used the recommended GRBG ( I think it was ) the other options were way off, so I know I used the correct option.
When I shoot RGB in sharpcap and APT they shoot real color as I see it?
Interesting. I played with the curves of the 3 channels and at least made it closer to real. Though the grass is VERY green in real life, but SURELY closer to real.
I think for astrophotography shots - this would be close enough for sure.
Also if you’re uncomfortable working with FITS and are more used to using Raw you can always use the CR2 option in SGP under the Canon Settings (I think you’re using a 6D?) You can also use CR2 + Raw which will give you both but will require more hard drive space. Either way the previews in SGP will appear in black and white.
The only exception to the black and white is if you do the JPG preview on the Frame and Focus tab. That will actually give you a color preview. But that is not raw CFA data that has been debayered (well it kind of is) that’s just the JPG that the camera gives us back. We generally prefer the raw data as it is not compressed.
I have Fit liberator (thanks for the info). I am very use to Raw yes, as a retired photographic studio owner of 30+ years… even teach photoshop and raw processing.
Though I’m not shooting DSLR, I’m shooting a ZWO ASI071MC-C. (and a ASI290MM)
Yes jpg is out of the question, the compression artifacts make it unusable for astro. (as you know).
Though I like a color preview, I really want a color file. I don’t want to spend hours processing to see what I actually shot.
I don’t understand what’s so hard about it. I mean it’s offered in other programs that are free, how hard can it be?
For most of us, this is not our profession, we want to HAVE FUN… and if it’s more work than it has to be and takes more time to end up with similar results, then it’s no longer fun. = (
If this is what you’re actually after then maybe one of those applications is better suited to your needs. It’s not that it’s hard…it’s that it’s wrong. If you start out with TIF then you cannot do things like calibrating your images with flats, darks and bias. You cannot even stack properly. At the point of TIF you no longer have linear data and you cannot accurately process it. TIFs are not good for astrophotography. SGP, being designed specifically for Astrophotography, will not output TIFs, PNGs, JPG or other debayered/non-linear/compressed formats for these reasons.
I can’t speak to why other applications do this, but we won’t. Why would you want to spend hours capturing data that is barely usable?
That is the point, why would we want to spend hours?
I probably don’t have the experience in this yet to fully understand. I’m new to astrop… however the one shot fb group is very active. And some awesome shots are done with OSC and only one frame. (its the rule there to post anything - “one shot”). I think with better cameras with lower noise and more sensitive sensors stacking and so much post will fade away for many who just want to enjoy shooting images. (we’re a big market). SURELY the old masterful way will continue to give best results… but for some of us - time is limited. I’m very interested in SGP for its automation. At this point (noob) I don’t have a lot of interest in running long sequences… but I want full remote control. Allowing more flexibility (day time shooting, shooting say… nature (bird nest, humming bird feeder) during the day with RGB shots).
is of interest to many as well. It would not deter the program to allow more flexibility. Different people have different needs. As am an extremely successful business man, and my mind automatically determines problems and thinks of solutions in markets. The one problem I see in this new hobby of mine is that there is no automation in software and control. No one program does it all. Seems so silly I have to run Stellarium and Sscope, and PHD2, and Ascom and EQcom, and viewers and capture software. I had to buy a new laptop just to deal with so much multitasking. I really love SGP’s (massive automation) plate solving, focusing, weather… all in one place. But it’s lacking in just allowing people to do simple captures. I was glad to see in my new setup I could do frame and focus single captures. (but then they’re bayered b/w) = (
In the other software I can select RAW16, Raw8 or RGB. If someone is SERIOUS about their work, they can simply use the 16bit raw format. It doesn’t degrade the software which I’m sure you are proud of to offer a RGB24 format for those who need it.
SGPro is specifically designed for AP. Even when attempting to capture data with a single shot, you will still want to calibrate that frame because it will be noisy, have potential hot / cold pixel and columns and depending on your gear significant vignetting. Regardless of the number of frames captured, we always want to leave data in a good place to do this. If you then decide that you’re not interested in calibration, it’s fair, at that point, to stretch, debayer and be done.
If cameras do evolve to a point where exposure and readout inject negligible noise, we still must consider that most DSOs are extremely dim and will require a lengthy integration, regardless of noise levels. To do this, one will still want to break this into multiple frames in order to minimize risk that a single long shot will be ruined by focus, wind, dew, etc.
Long story short, I think that no matter how advanced and sophisticated a camera, it will not overcome basic data collection needs for very dim targets. This means that your ability to get a reasonable image from a single shot is likely limited to a couple dozen (or less targets).
Sounds like two different conversations happening in this thread. Image display vs Image saved format. I thought the same as Ron when I got started. Yes displaying a debayered JPG of the original FIT/TIF file seems like a good way to get instant gratification from your 5-10min images. The more I use the app though I realized I can see what I need to in the non-colorized images. As a baseline the default stretching methods used by SGP has done well by me.
That all being said SGP is a great tool that probably is more aimed at the amateur who is taking their AP to the next level. I use APT/BYEOS as well, but I know if I want to automate my entire imaging session then SGP is the way to go hands down. Is there a learning curve? Yes, Is there a ton of configurations to understand and get right? Yes. But in my honest opinion these are all great parts of this hobby and learning this stuff is awesome!
+1 There are ways of getting instant results but instant results are seldom the best. RGB24 is 8-bit per channel, sufficient for short-exposure video sequences of bright subjects but completely inadequate for deep sky imaging.
In regard to Debayering - it is not one algorithm, but several, all of which have different strengths and weaknesses, depending on the image type. As Ken says - it is essential to calibrate before debayering and then register and integrate the debayered images afterwards. Data preservation is the name of the game and 16-bit per channel is a minimum for astrophotography.Today’s technology pushes for instant gratification. The allure of this hobby is the challenge and patience to produce something stunning out of seemingly nothing.
