Which mount should I get - needs to work with SGP!

I’m new to this - I purchased a NEQ6 because they were very popular. I really like it, but I can’t seem to get it to guide under 1.3 acr sec. I had massive backlash and pulled it appart, remeshed the gears and removed over 20k ms in backlash. Still - not guiding as well as I’d like. Currently I shoot a 80mm 384fl and the stars are sharp. HOWEVER I have a 127mm apo, a 8" RC and a 11" SCT waiting in the wings and at those focal lengths. (primarily I want to use the 8") 1.3 as guiding error isn’t gonna cut it I don’t believe.

So - I figured I’d shop for a new mount. Though mine is only 6mo old. I picked up a losmandy cheap locally and I can upgrade it to the new G11G2 unit for around 2700.00.
(do that or sell it and buy another brand or new Losmandy?)

MY PRIMARY concern is (I like Eqmod, I love SGP) I don’t think eqmod works with the Losmandy. (G11). do I need Eqmod? (it’s all I’ve used thus far). Ascom is nearly the same thing? Will I have all the fuctionality I currently have with SGP if I upgrade the 1997 Losmandy to a new model. Else what mount? I don’t care about hand controls, portability… I currently have my mount do a blind solve with SGP and sync. (love it) SGP then controls the mount totally…
I MUST retain that functionality.

Is this all possible with the Losmandy G11 G2 mount? anyone using one? or what mount would you suggest? I want excellent guiding - It’s nice to have 60-100lb capacity). I’d like to spend under 5K.

Advice?

The Losmandy G11 is a very capable mount and I used one for years. But
like everything it was designed a built with a specific price point in
mind. It’s a good “bang for the buck” value, but it won’t handle your 11"
SCT. You might be OK with the 8" but that will push a G11.

Without knowing your budget, I would recommend selling the NEQ6 and the G11
you have and replace them with a Mach1GTO class mount. The Mach1 should be
able to handle the 11 SCT, although an AP1100 class would be better.

I moved from a G11 to a Mach1 and have been thrilled with the performance.
I have even had a 10" RC, 80mm APO and two cameras mounted on it without it
really breaking a sweat.

As I’m sure you know the mount is the foundation of an imaging system. The
best scope in the world is useless without a mount to carry it precisely.
If money is a concern, I would even be willing to sell 1 or two of your
scopes in favor of getting a good mount.

Thats I’ll look into that one. I was hoping to keep it under 5K (shipped taxed etc).
I just listed the G11 for sale. Also listed the 11" SCT. I’m also likely selling the ES 127mm (I just bought used for 1200. Will sell for 1200)
As shortly after the 8" GSO RC landed in my lap. (good/super deal). I have added a feather touch EF to it as I like to be able to run everything remotely from in the house. (400 ft from dome/setup) which is why I wanted to use EQMOD/ASCOM? - or just have full remote control. I use team viewer and run my laptop from in the house. Laptop is in the dome.

The NEQ6 works GREAT with SGP and eqmod, but around 2" seems to be best guiding RMS error. I think I’ll need better with 1400+ focal length scope like the Rc.

So I would keep my SV80 apo and my 8" RC. Sell both mounts or keep sky watcher for a portable.

You can get a used Mach1 for around 5k with the accessories you will need.
In fact one just popped up for 5500. You won’t really miss EQASCOM. The
AP ascom driver is robust and isn’t difficult to learn.

I use Teamviewer also. I now have just a mini pc (intel NUC) in my
observatory and remote it with my tablet, phone or desktop pc from inside
the house. Works great.

The only other question for you is, do you really want to sell the ES apo
instead of the 8" RC? Apos are much easier to work with than RCs, but if
you are familiar with the RC and comfortable with it then it should be
fine.

sell 8" instead. I was considering that. But I need EF on them. I installed FT and EF on my 80mm.
I then wanted it on the 127 or 8". The owner at feather touch said the RC was the better scope. (than the ES127).
So I spent the 1000 for that EF focuser and FT on the RC.

(against my better judgement, but I figured he knew best). The RC needs culmination. I’m not real sure how to. I tried it and it’s better but not correct. I could sell the RC, but I’d need an extra 1000 for the new EF on it.

Really is the 127? the better scope? I do prefer refractors for simplicity and just clean sharp stars, but I’ve seen a lot of great astro images from the GSO RC?

I’m not saying that either scope is “better.” They are just very
different. Working with a refractor is just easier to learn
astrophotography with. Years ago, with less experience than I have now, I
had an AT8RC. It’s a fine scope but I grew tired of messing with
collimation so I gave it up in favor of a 140mm refractor and my life was
easier. :slight_smile: Now I’m back to a higher quality RC because I wanted more
focal length, but I also have a lot more experience now.

If you have already spent money on the RC with focusers etc then I’d just
stick with it and realize there will be a steeper learning curve with it.
But it will be nice to have 2000mm focal length for galaxies and smaller
planetaries, with the 80mm apo for widefield work. They do complement each
other.

ah yeah I get that. That’s why I’m shopping for a new mount 6mo after getting my first one. I’ve only had round stars… but at 384. I know it’s not precise enough for 1500+
Whats your feeling on a newt. I’ve had my eye on a 8" 3.9 due to it being fast, shorter exposures… yet decent focal length for the small targets. But they too need collimation from time to time.

I would stick with a refractors for the first 2-3 years of learning astrophotography things. Newts are ok but faster newts have a lot of coma unless you pay big money for something that is well corrected or use a coma corrector (which generally gives acceptable results depending on your chip size). RCs can be a headache with longer FL and less sharp optics (on the less expensive RCs at least) compared to refractors. SCTs are generally not that flat either and have coma in the corners (again, unless you spend some decent money on it)

As for the mount. You don’t need a Gemini 2 system with a G11. If you find an older G1 system those work just great and that’s what I had until recently (technically I still have it…). I never attached the hand controller so I could never justify the G2 upgrade. The G11 should work well for everything but the SCT and even then it may be ok if you have a well performing G11, but you’ll be right at the top of it’s capacity, so expect some ok and some bad nights.

If you really want capacity in the 60-100lb range, you may want to consider a Takahashi NJP Temma2 or an EM400, or maybe even the AP1100.

You’ll never regret buying a bigger/more accurate/nicer mount. I started with a CG-5, it was ok but not really up to doing anything AP. Moved to a CGEM and eventually a G11. I used the G11 for many years, it’s a great mount. About a year ago I picked up an EM400. The increased capacity is nice but what I really love is the tracking accuracy and fast setup (excellent polar finder, although PoleMaster is about as fast and probably more accurate!)

Good luck,
Jared

I used a G11 for a couple of years. Works great with SGP and guides well. Sold it and upgraded to Losmandy Titan which I have now and it is a great mount. See my Astrobin site for Jerry Macon. It supports 100 pounds and I ran about 110-120 on it for a year and it worked great. The best guiding I have ever gotten, typical .5 to .7 comes with using a Starlight Xpress AO-OAG unit. Requires a lot of backfocus, 105mm with my current ASI1600mm.
The Titan will run you about $5500, but a real value for 100 pound capacity. Nothing compares.

I sold mine, and ordered the Mach1 - it should be here monday.
thanks for the help.

Now ACPP? standard or pro? SURELY pro is better but 250 bucks better?
I’m not real sure of the differences?

Thanks to all - loving it so far… but you know - it’s been cloudy since it arrived = )

nice setup! did you go for APCC?

AP would recommend that you use more counterweights and move them closer to the RA axis. this reduces the moment arm and should improve RA performance. however it may not matter with the FL of your scope being on the shorter side.

rob

I have another 2
1lb losmandy weight (like the one pictured). I just bought it so I can counter my 8" RC and the 80mm at the same time. Are you saying I should use both weights to counter this setup? I’m all for better RA performance. I thought adding more weight would just tax the mount more. (though I’m well under).

YES APCC pro - though wondering if I would have been better off spending that money on SkyX? Actual guiding has been (better than NEQ) but not as good as I’d like. Im’ sure it’s me… though last night I did get a good GA report? actual guiding wasn’t the best. Seeing I think was horrible though. And I don’t think GA takes that into consideration when testing the mount?

i think AP just upped the payload rating of the m1gto to 65lb of payload, which implies in the neighborhood of 130lb total. so you very likely won’t be going over the rated capacity by adding weights. anyway every time i’ve set up a new mount this is what howard has recommended to me - more weight higher up.

to me TSX is not useful at all except for target planning, and i can do that with AstroPlanner. the safety features in APCC are well worth the money. so with APCC pro you can build a sky model to use to improve pointing and tracking; ray added the ability for APPM to use SGP as its camera (capture/platesolve) and the process is pretty painless.

rob

Will APPM help with guiding? I’m scratching my head on it. My lines do some pretty extreme ups n downs and I have aggression for dec down to around 9. yeah… 9.

Last night I did the above GA - result - but actual guiding was around 1.1 total rms.
The one other time I was able to test it - I did get .70 which I was fairly pleased with.
I’d be content with .5 and less.

I find pointing is insanely accurate so far. NEQ use to plate sold 4 times and sometimes stop/error
the AP mount does on centering plate-solve and says done. (meaning, it nailed it first try).

I did find my guiding improved when I turned off PEC. Though the documentation said it was done at factory
and was ready to go? BUT doesn’t that all change if I release the mount from the worm gears (as I do to balance the mount) on occasion. Wouldn’t that throw off the timing of the PEC? So last night I clicked record and let it update the PE.

I’m surprised at the backlash figure - I thought AP mounts were better than that, and the new gearbox says even better still. I wonder if that is a measurement mistake, or whether you see that in practice. It might be worth checking it out with another program, like PHD2, and see if it has the same result.

that is PHD2 guide assistant (built in) reporting.

thanks - I wondered if that was from PHD2. In practice, when it is guiding, do you see multiple DEC guide corrections in the same direction before the DEC error swings back? (The DEC guide response say to a dither pulse looks more like a square wave than say a triangular peak.) The one below is from my old EQ6 mount, using Maxim DL. (I’ll say three hail Mary’s)

If this is real and you get something similar, I would be inclined to discuss with AP.

Hi Buzz… I see ALTERNATING. Dec above - dec under. this tells me it’s to aggressive in it’s corrections? But I was down around a dec aggression setting of 9. Which seemed (abnormal)?
I have the log from my last session. I should pull it from the laptop and see what I have. During guide assistant it would have run for 6-8 minutes or so… maybe that would be helpful.

I get jaggys. I had them in my NEQ6 (sold it after 5 months) being told from the phd group it was a bad one? I see similar (though not as bad) guiding from the Mach1. SO SURELY ITS ME - and something I’m doing wrong!?!?

I use a polemaster for alignment. I get the ending RED/GREEN elements perfectly aligned to each other. I’m primarily - always setup. Though not on a pier. I’m on the Losmandy tripod which is MAJOR - STURDY… so any tweak in adjustment each night is minimal to none.