So I did some tests - Using team viewer I ran the scope setup out in the garage from my warm indoor computer.
I shot this down the driveway. This was debayed in Pixinsight, then SPLIT back into each color channel (b/w of each RGB)
I then loaded them into photoshop and combine them.
They look the same as they did when I debayered them in pixinsight? It might look ok, to you - except it’s not fall here.
ALL THE GRASS AND LEAVES AND FOLIAGE ARE VERY GREEN in real life.
I used the recommended GRBG ( I think it was ) the other options were way off, so I know I used the correct option.
When I shoot RGB in sharpcap and APT they shoot real color as I see it?
Interesting. I played with the curves of the 3 channels and at least made it closer to real. Though the grass is VERY green in real life, but SURELY closer to real.
I think for astrophotography shots - this would be close enough for sure.
Also if you’re uncomfortable working with FITS and are more used to using Raw you can always use the CR2 option in SGP under the Canon Settings (I think you’re using a 6D?) You can also use CR2 + Raw which will give you both but will require more hard drive space. Either way the previews in SGP will appear in black and white.
The only exception to the black and white is if you do the JPG preview on the Frame and Focus tab. That will actually give you a color preview. But that is not raw CFA data that has been debayered (well it kind of is) that’s just the JPG that the camera gives us back. We generally prefer the raw data as it is not compressed.
I have Fit liberator (thanks for the info). I am very use to Raw yes, as a retired photographic studio owner of 30+ years… even teach photoshop and raw processing.
Though I’m not shooting DSLR, I’m shooting a ZWO ASI071MC-C. (and a ASI290MM)
Yes jpg is out of the question, the compression artifacts make it unusable for astro. (as you know).
Though I like a color preview, I really want a color file. I don’t want to spend hours processing to see what I actually shot.
I don’t understand what’s so hard about it. I mean it’s offered in other programs that are free, how hard can it be?
For most of us, this is not our profession, we want to HAVE FUN… and if it’s more work than it has to be and takes more time to end up with similar results, then it’s no longer fun. = (
If this is what you’re actually after then maybe one of those applications is better suited to your needs. It’s not that it’s hard…it’s that it’s wrong. If you start out with TIF then you cannot do things like calibrating your images with flats, darks and bias. You cannot even stack properly. At the point of TIF you no longer have linear data and you cannot accurately process it. TIFs are not good for astrophotography. SGP, being designed specifically for Astrophotography, will not output TIFs, PNGs, JPG or other debayered/non-linear/compressed formats for these reasons.
I can’t speak to why other applications do this, but we won’t. Why would you want to spend hours capturing data that is barely usable?
That is the point, why would we want to spend hours?
I probably don’t have the experience in this yet to fully understand. I’m new to astrop… however the one shot fb group is very active. And some awesome shots are done with OSC and only one frame. (its the rule there to post anything - “one shot”). I think with better cameras with lower noise and more sensitive sensors stacking and so much post will fade away for many who just want to enjoy shooting images. (we’re a big market). SURELY the old masterful way will continue to give best results… but for some of us - time is limited. I’m very interested in SGP for its automation. At this point (noob) I don’t have a lot of interest in running long sequences… but I want full remote control. Allowing more flexibility (day time shooting, shooting say… nature (bird nest, humming bird feeder) during the day with RGB shots).
is of interest to many as well. It would not deter the program to allow more flexibility. Different people have different needs. As am an extremely successful business man, and my mind automatically determines problems and thinks of solutions in markets. The one problem I see in this new hobby of mine is that there is no automation in software and control. No one program does it all. Seems so silly I have to run Stellarium and Sscope, and PHD2, and Ascom and EQcom, and viewers and capture software. I had to buy a new laptop just to deal with so much multitasking. I really love SGP’s (massive automation) plate solving, focusing, weather… all in one place. But it’s lacking in just allowing people to do simple captures. I was glad to see in my new setup I could do frame and focus single captures. (but then they’re bayered b/w) = (
In the other software I can select RAW16, Raw8 or RGB. If someone is SERIOUS about their work, they can simply use the 16bit raw format. It doesn’t degrade the software which I’m sure you are proud of to offer a RGB24 format for those who need it.
SGPro is specifically designed for AP. Even when attempting to capture data with a single shot, you will still want to calibrate that frame because it will be noisy, have potential hot / cold pixel and columns and depending on your gear significant vignetting. Regardless of the number of frames captured, we always want to leave data in a good place to do this. If you then decide that you’re not interested in calibration, it’s fair, at that point, to stretch, debayer and be done.
If cameras do evolve to a point where exposure and readout inject negligible noise, we still must consider that most DSOs are extremely dim and will require a lengthy integration, regardless of noise levels. To do this, one will still want to break this into multiple frames in order to minimize risk that a single long shot will be ruined by focus, wind, dew, etc.
Long story short, I think that no matter how advanced and sophisticated a camera, it will not overcome basic data collection needs for very dim targets. This means that your ability to get a reasonable image from a single shot is likely limited to a couple dozen (or less targets).
Sounds like two different conversations happening in this thread. Image display vs Image saved format. I thought the same as Ron when I got started. Yes displaying a debayered JPG of the original FIT/TIF file seems like a good way to get instant gratification from your 5-10min images. The more I use the app though I realized I can see what I need to in the non-colorized images. As a baseline the default stretching methods used by SGP has done well by me.
That all being said SGP is a great tool that probably is more aimed at the amateur who is taking their AP to the next level. I use APT/BYEOS as well, but I know if I want to automate my entire imaging session then SGP is the way to go hands down. Is there a learning curve? Yes, Is there a ton of configurations to understand and get right? Yes. But in my honest opinion these are all great parts of this hobby and learning this stuff is awesome!
+1 There are ways of getting instant results but instant results are seldom the best. RGB24 is 8-bit per channel, sufficient for short-exposure video sequences of bright subjects but completely inadequate for deep sky imaging.
In regard to Debayering - it is not one algorithm, but several, all of which have different strengths and weaknesses, depending on the image type. As Ken says - it is essential to calibrate before debayering and then register and integrate the debayered images afterwards. Data preservation is the name of the game and 16-bit per channel is a minimum for astrophotography.Today’s technology pushes for instant gratification. The allure of this hobby is the challenge and patience to produce something stunning out of seemingly nothing.
yeah I’m sure I’ll feel differently when I get some experience. At this
point yeah… I want to see a cool shot. Sharpcap does stacking live. (you
set the exposure and it will stack each as it’s taken). I already have a
elec filter wheel and filters on the way (SHO and LRGB) so I will
eventually come around. I’ll likely get a ASI1600MM as my 071 is color
only. Or I’ll play with filters and the 290mm for a while. Still it seems
easy to give that choice so I don’t have to switch software simply to
capture a quick one shot or moon, planet etc. We’ll no need to jump in and
buy at this point then.
ok, so your right the other aps still save fits as b/w. png is fine for a fun shot, but not for real shots… but I can use sharpcap for frame and focus/color preview (instant gratification)
So SGP is still top choice for me.
How do I use the ipad? I have sky safari plus. I will be running SGP on my laptop via wifi.
how to interface ipad control? I looked in help file, and didn’t see anything, searched on here and didn’t find a ipad thread in a search.
Currently I run stellarium on the laptop and since I’m using Team viewer is tends to be rather intensive to drag and scroll around from in the house.
It might be nice to run scope go to from the ipad. Or iphone?
Is there a doc file that answers all my questions?
Allow External Control of Telescope will allow your device to connect to SGP like it were a SkyFi. The bottom of the linked page has important settings that you’ll need to pay attention to for SkySafari.
AWESOME - I got it setup and working. However what might I change to eliminate (frequent) losses of connection?
hmmm moved inside the house and doesn’t seem to be dropping any more. Maybe the range/signal to the ipad. I’l keep testing and poking at it.
I have scope setup to laptop in garage. (on wifi) I run it by Team viewer from in the house.
ipad in garage would drop out, in the house it seems to be stable (so far).
Team viewer and laptop and desktop and ipad all on same wifi connection.
thinking it has to do with wifi connection to ipad in garage, but should have better range. hmmm
Probably just better connectivity. I’m not sure how sensitive SkySafari is to losing a single packet. Also I would turn down your polling rate (in SkySafari) to once per second.
Jared, I think Ron Kramer’s suggestion was to have a color display option - for display purposes only - which would not affect the saved image. Much like the “screen transfer function” in PixInsight. It adjusts the image so you can see it better for working with it, but without making any permanent changes to the image itself, saved or otherwise. He was just postulating why not offer a similar feature for a color preview, which does not actually save the images that way? I thought it was a good suggestion personally.
VERY old post of mine, lots has changed since then (no sky safari needed) no 071 owned. But I have gotten a ASI094Mc. (full frame). And I’ve gotten into live broadcasting of my sessions. (good for SGP) as most people ask what it is and say they’ve never seen it. The nightskiesnetwork people broadcast 99.9% sharpcap. This lets people watching view a color stacked live image.
As a quality purist, I tried sharpcap, but have gone back to SGP for obvious reasons. However I still would like to see debayered previews (like the other software option offer). (save debayered or just save as usual and let us view debayered).
What I have to do now is shoot with SGP, then run DSS live which stacks the b/w (non debayered images) then stacks them live so broadcast watchers (and myself) can see what I have so far.
This is fine for my 1600MMpro - as there is nothing to debayer. But broadasting with the 094MC it would be awesome to at least see a debayered preview. (the other software options do this).
Otherwise there isn’t much reason to watch me broadcast as each sub is the same as the previous. = (
A debayer when saving would be best, since then DSS live could stack color live.
Here is a SGP exposed, but DSS live stack (while live broadcasting). SGP recording R G B and Ha. “Live” stacked them for viewers could see a more final result.
having a debayer option would certainly open up a new market of users for SGP.
I don’t think this is something we would add as that really starts to get into processing. As a preview that’s one thing (and something we’ll likely add in the distant future). But you’d also likely want to color balance and such as the images are coming out of SGP. I wonder if there is a way to script PixInsight to pickup incoming images, debayer, color calibrate, do any other processing steps you might want, and then add it to a stack of similarly processed images? Just thinking that for your use case you’ll probably want more than just a simple “debayer and output a FITs or TIFF”
